Tuesday, 23 August 2011

Do you think this is too much?

Edited: Ok, so I was just starting this blog post when I noticed that Mamamia had beaten me to the punch. It's an interesting article, so head on over there for a look, and weigh in there as well.


I'm asking about this because I'm genuinely surprised that the vast majority of respondants (I'm told on Sunrise {am I a cow if I say that says it all....} and on other sites) seem to be on the side of the parent here.  Saying there should be more of this kind of parenting.



Plenty of people this morning are talking about this story out of Townsville about a mother who chose a somewhat out-of-the-box punishment for her son, who was caught stealing. Now, a caveat of sorts, before I put my judgemental hat on.  I know only what is in the story. And it's from news.com.au  So, you know. Grains of salt come to mind. 

Anyhoo, now that that's out of the way.  The story is this.  Straight from http://www.news.com.au/

A MOTHER made her child sit in public with a sign pinned to his shirt that said: "Do not trust me. I will steal from you as I am a thief."


The boy, thought to be aged about 10, was also wearing Shrek ears and writing lines in what appeared to a form of public punishment, according to dozens of witnesses who contacted the Townsville Bulletin.


The boy spent almost an hour on Sunday near a popular waterpark in Townsville while his family ate lunch nearby, The Daily Telegraph reported.


Diane Mayers was so "horrified" when she saw the boy she contacted Child Safety Services to intervene.


Ms Mayers, who worked with the department in the past, said any long-term effects of public humiliation would have been much worse than physical abuse.
"The boy just kept his head down and was staring at the ground," she said. "The parents had gone to all the trouble of printing two copies of the sign - one for the back and one for the front - and laminating them. A lot of work had gone in to it.


"A lot of people walked past and were laughing at him, including boys who would have been his age.
"At one point the boy had taken off the Shrek ears. My daughter walked past and heard the mother say, 'Put them back on or I'll smack your head in'."

Now, I don't think I've ever made a secret of the fact that we are very much proponents of the school of gentle parenting. I have one (possibly 2) sensitive child with autism and his emotional wellbeing is of paramount importance to me.  Add to that that I have always, always been incredibly sensitive (overly so, I'm told my my shrink) to the feelings of others, and you can guess I'm going to have some issues with this.

It is probably the part of my parenting of which I am most proud (and I do understand that not everyone agrees, or places the same priorites, or feels the same way. This is all me, and I speak for noone else. Different parents value different things). I'm constantly mindful of the way I speak to the boys, the way my words or actions will make them feel about themselves, about the world, about our relationship. 

I had a wonderful relationship with my parents, but I am still scarred by throw-away comments made (particularly by my mother) while I was growing up that have left me with some fairly deep-rooted issues. Comments I'm sure were flippant and light hearted to her, but which cut me to the quick and literally changed me and my view of myself and the world I was in.

So, as you can imagine, I am struggling somewhat with the punishment doled out by this mother.  I'm uncomfortable with the level of humiliation that this child would have endured. I'm uncomfortable with the taunting he will probably receive for a long time to come from school 'friends'. (Kids can be so horrible).

For the life of me, I can't see how Shrek Ears come into play? A sign, one thing. Writing lines, another (Joel has had Alexander write lines before). But a costume? Why not put a dunce's hat on him and be done?

image source
What on earth was the reasoning behind that? And the comment that she would 'smack his head in' if he removed them? I'll admit. Hearing any parent speak to their child harshly is a particular hate of Joel and I. It's hurtful and so frustrating to see and hear, and sometimes takes a lot for us not to say something. (I did, in fact yesterday, when a mother told her 5-6 year old to "Shut the F up or she'd smack him one"). And again, we're getting this from second-third-fourth hand sources here, so who knows how accurate that part of the story is.

What do you think? Obviously, a child who steals needs to be taught that a)it is unacceptable, under any circumstances and that b) there WILL be consequences. And I believe those consequenses should be harsh. If it were my child (Alexander, I mean. Sammy is still a little young {or delayed} to grasp the concept) then he would be made to do the following.

Return said item. Apologise in person. Pay for said item (without being allowed to keep it) or do the equivelant in work/chores for the person he stole it from.  He would lose something of his that is valuable to him. He would almost certainly find himself losing priveleges or grounded.

These seem, to me, to be relevant punishments. Directly related to the crime, so to speak. And while there is embarrassment (having to apologise in person and admit what he'd one), the humiliation is limited to the person he wronged. It would not be a public shaming. It would hopefully teach him a lesson without leaving him traumatised by standing for an hour in one of the busiest parts of town (I know Townsville. I know that water park, assuming it's The Strand; the only place I can think of that fits the description. It is incredibly popular, there would have been people everywhere).

What do you think? Do you think I'm too worried about the child's feelings? (It's ok if you do, you can tell me.  It won't be the first time I've heard it ;D ). Do you think your opinion would be swayed by whether this was the child's first offense of if he was a serial 'offender'?  Do you think we need to be harder on kids? If this were your child, what punishment would you have chosen?

I keep hearing (and reading in the Mamamia article comments) that 'kids these days' have it too easy. Have no sense of accountability. And maybe that's true. Certainly this new generation has less of a 'fear' (for want of a better word) or respect for authority than my generation, who probably had less than the generation before me. And certainly phyiscal punishment (which we got, as children, and I don't feel scarred by) is at the very least, frowned upon, if not outright called abuse. (Do you think smacking is abuse? Were you smacked as a child? If you were, do you feel that it was damaging? Do you or have you smacked your child? What are your thoughts on smacking {note, I'm not talking about beating or using implements here, which I very definitely think are abuse. I'm talking a quick smack on the hand/bum etc})

Do you think that tough love is the way to go?

Edited again: I've read somewhere (I'm sorry, I can't remember where) that as more of the story is revealed, these parents have been dealing with this child's stealing for upwards of 3 years, and so this was their 'last resort'. I'm not sure it changes my opinion (on whether I would do it), but I do think it only fair that this fact be mentioned, as it certainly makes you more sympathetic toward the family's problem.






19 comments:

  1. I really liked the article, and the very cool blog

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  2. This is not a loving action and the parent should not be doing to the child what they wouldn't want doing to themselves.
    This only serves to shame the child and will not create any lasting change within them.

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  3. I think it was under an hour {according to the article} with his parents nearby, monitoring the situation, I assume and perhaps also exposing themselves to a form of humiliation having a child who will steal from others.

    If this boy can refer to this moment, Shrek ears or no Shrek ears in the future when he goes to take something from another person, well maybe he will think twice.

    I don't think we can judge other people's parenting without knowing them and the child. Perhaps this was the best way to get through to him. Just as you know the best way to communicate with your children.

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  4. Like I said, Mel. I realise we only know part of this (probably sensationalised) story and I'm sure there is more to it.

    But I'm curious about how people feel about this type of parenting and whether they would use it.

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  5. It is a hard one. Taking it at face value, it brings tears to my eyes and makes my heart ache for him. I am a sensitive soul and like you there were just a few comments from my mum which have stayed with me. Personally no I don't agree with it. I feel there are much more loving ways to deal with it.

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  6. I can see that it might deter further stealing, but only out of fear, not a lasting inner change. I am horrified at these actions - public humiliation is never ok in my books. For anyone at any age!

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  7. I think it is important to correct a child but it should be done gently without being harsh, overacting and shaming.
    This punishment only addresses the action and not the attitudes, intentions and motivations of the child in stealing.
    If it were my child stealing, it would be an indicator to me that all was not well with my child's moral compass and that there were deeper issues I would need to address. This takes work and time.
    This parent is not going to accomplish anything with her child through these actions but alienate him.

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  8. Personally I wouldn't do it.

    BUT, I can see where the Parents could be coming from. I can see that this may have been a last resort for the Parents because nothing else was working. A "creative" way of dealing with him stealing.

    If that child was my 12yo, I can put money on him learning nothing from taking back the item, apologising etc. He would shrug his shoulders and be happy it was done with. And he would steal again. Where as if I were to make him do that as a punishment, he would never steal again.

    I can understand the Parents frustrations and trying to do the right thing. May not be the 'right' thing to others, but maybe it was the right thing for them at the time.

    It's hard this Parenting gig huh.

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  9. I'm not sure I do agree with the punishment, although like what Melissa from Sugar Coat It did say, we only knew part of the story and this might have been the only way for his parents to address his attitude. But for me, public humiliation does not teach a child anything. Sure it brings shame on the action but for me, it's all about WHY he did it, not WHAT he did. There has to be deeper issues at hand that the parents should get to the bottom of really.

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  10. I dont think i would go as far as to make my child sit in public with signs on him while he writes lines but then again we dont know the full story we dont know how much trouble he may or may not be getting into prior to this ,maybe this was a last resort for the boys mother .
    I wouldn't definitely take my child back and make them apologies for what they had done but i say good on her for trying to teach him a lesson .

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  11. I believe I saw an American show (probably Dr Phil knowing me) where a Californian judge was successfully using this exact sort of punishment to deter young (15 year olds) criminals rather than sentence them to juvenile hall. I suspect these parents must have watched that show too and used the technique on a (in my opinion) too young child. It's one thing to have a judge met out this sort of punishment, quite another to receive it from your parents. x

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  12. It's not something I could ever imagine doing...but then I'm not a parent of a 12 year old who is stealing. It's one of those hard to judge situations, not having walked a mile..

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  13. As someone who has chosen to parent from a place of love and security it isn't a choice that I would be comfortable in making. That said I've learnt through experience that judgment is like the iceberg that sunk the Titanic, it wasn't the visible that did the damage.

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  14. It must have been a tough decision and one they didn't make lightly but I wouldn't do it.

    Knowing though that frustration with a child who steals over and over may lead some people to take such action or similar when nothing else works...I still don't agree.

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  15. From where I sit, no. Not a punishment I would use. It strikes me as a form of emotional abuse. It also seems that his parents were at their wits end, and were at least trying. No easy answers except that I wouldn't couldn't do it.
    We were smacked (rarely) as children but it is the hateful words which scar me.

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  16. teaching your child a lesson on what is right and what is wrong thats fine... but publicly humiliating him is just plain cruel and will only get you hate and resentment from your child. A more suitable punishment would have been to have your child write a letter to the person or place they stole from and have the child return what they stole along with the letter of apology. When dealing with my own children i have looked back on the things that my parents did that were effective and have steered clear from the ones that either didn't faze me or had me so angry i went and did it again just to spite them. I must say out of all the punishments i received when i was younger and what i have tried with my children the one that struck the most was when my parents just looked at me said nothing while shaking their heads and walking away letting me know they were disappointed in me and the actions that i had chose to take. To me nothing hurt worst then knowing my parents were so disappointed in me that they could not look or talk to me at that moment... that was the worst punishment of all. They could ground me until they were blue in the face but not talking to me (pretty much the silence treatment) killed me because that left me not knowing how upset they were, what was gonna happen next and instead of being able to yell back at them and try and turn the tables the only person i could talk to & get mad at was myself for making my parents so upset that they had nothing to say to me. that time gave me time to cool off & to think about what i did and why/how it could make them that upset to not speak to me, and hey what do you know it pretty much worked every time in the end it was me who would go up to them and apologize and tell them that (ugh i hate to say it) but that they were right and we would then talk about the issue.
    So i can say out of all the things i have tried with my children one being an 11yr old boy who is trying to push the boundaries to see what he can get away with.. i can yell, take things away, threaten to take things, send him to his room etc, etc, etc... after trying all those things and more the light bulb went off and the next time he did something that needed to result in some sort of punishment i sent him to his room them looked at him right in the eyes shook my head walked out of his room and shut the door behind me. let me tell you i think after the shock wore off he was so confused and would come and try and talk and all i would say was not now i am very hurt and disappointed in your actions (not YOU but your ACTIONS) and need some time & cannot talk to you at the moment i will get you when i can. Well let me just say i should have done this earlier because he DID NOT like me upset with, hurt by or disappointed in what he did. I would find him coming up to me after some alone time he would spend in his room or doing whatever around the house and ask me not to be upset and apologize, etc. and then because we were both calmed down we were then able to talk and i was able to let him know why i was so hurt and disappointed.
    Now I am not by any means saying that this is the best way i just know its the best way for me for when i was younger and for my children. I just feel nothing gets to a child more then knowing that his or her parents are upset with them and wont speak to them. Embarrassing them in public and making them feel small, useless, a joke etc is not the way you should ever want your child to feel because i can almost guarantee that that child will go out and steal again just to prove to his mother that her humiliating plan didn't work it'll most likely make him more of an angry child.

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  17. Completely unnacceptable. This child will never be able to live down this humiliation. These parents have exposed their son to possible bullying from peers. I can't help but think that with such insensitive parents, stealing will be the least of this child's problems. And i can't believe how any parents excused this type of "punishment".

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  18. I was told by a drug addict once, "Never trust a junkie, they will lie to you, they will steal from you, they will always let you down."

    She was a drug addict... she told me the truth and I still didn't listen... she lied, she cheated, she stole...

    I wouldn't do this to my child no... but I can understand if the parents felt it was their last resort.

    Kids DO have it too easy... they DO have little "fear" and respect for authority... but why is that?

    Perhaps because over zealous parents and teachers and role models and church leaders took corporal punishment too far... perhaps because they were finally caught out abusing children... sadly the backlash went too far and the pendulum swung too far the other way? Maybe?

    Not too mention corporate paedophilia (as I once read marketing to pre-teens referred to) filling their heads with crap they don't need... pester power is THE greatest discovery of the advertising world in our history.

    As a parent today I often lament that, "My mother didn't have to worry about this stuff." I think we've lost the plot completely and utterly... and when a parent thinks that public humiliation is somehow going to improve a crappy situation (I have a theory the thievery probably stems from self esteem issues anyway) I think we all need to sit down and have a good hard look at ourselves... and our parenting methods... go read Michael Grose's suggestions... I think he has a pretty good balance between being too soft and going too over the top.

    And as for your issues with your mother's "flip" remarks... get over it... build some resilience and move on... you said yourself she probably didn't mean them badly... why can't it be just as simple as that? Stop over thinking. Just be.

    By the way... I also have one, possibly three (twins) autistic children too. They need us at our best... not dealing with hang ups of our own.

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  19. http://www.parentingideas.com.au/Home

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I know we're all busy, so the fact you've taken time out of your day to comment and connect with me means so much.

xxxx
Melissa.

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